sbc fan to radiator distance

On my 76 I have a good 4-5 inches between fan and radiator. 3 ROW ALUMINUM RADIATOR & SHROUD FAN FOR 64-67 CHEVY CHEVELLE/ IMPALA 63-68. It needs to match your engine and driving conditions by … Other factors, such as the blade geometry and fan diameter, can not be changed due to time and space constraints. Figure 2. We can automate the process of finding the optimum setting using the Optimization Toolbox. ; the core of the radiator is approximately 371 sq After modeling the effect of the three factors on airflow, we use our model to estimate the variability in the optimized design. I have a brand new radiator and no A/C (yes, it is getting a wee bit hot driving in Houston...), and I have about 2" from the front edges of my 6 blade flex fan to the to the radiator (standard, non-clutched fan). "My car ain't no hot rod. An initial condition, x0, is defined to start the optimization routine. Hey guys. Re: Fan Clutch to Radiator Distance 07-20-06 02:47 AM - Post# 972016 In response to MG66Biscayne I don't know if this will help. Figure 7. We use a variable pitch test fan, varying the pitch angle in 0.5-degree increments from 15 to 35 degrees, and measure the airflow. The plots confirm what the coefficients already reveal: Effects of the blade pitch angle, distance, and blade-tip clearance are, respectively, nonlinear, linear, and negligible. Upper and lower control limits (UCL and LCL) are ± three standard deviations from the mean. Visual display of the data from the Distribution Fitting Tool in the Statistics and Machine Learning Toolbox. We used our test data to estimate optimum values for each factor, resulting in a design that produced airflows beyond our goal of 875 ft3 per minute. We set the distance and blade-tip clearance at the optimal values. Radiator fan. "Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." It is not a matter of how close the fan is to the radiator. What is the smallest fan and CFM's I could get away with It … Without a fan shroud, it's not going to get the job done. We estimate that the cooling fan must pull in at least 875 ft3 per minute through the radiator to cool the engine adequately during difficult conditions. Edison, "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." We estimate the airflow for 10,000 test simulations that use random combinations of factor settings within the tolerance ranges described above. 1972-1986 JEEP CJ SERIES CJ5 CJ6 CJ7 GM ENGINES. The mean airflow for our existing fan is 842 ft3 per minute with a standard deviation of ± 2 ft3 per minute. Cold Case 64-67 Pontiac GTO Super Duty Aluminum Radiator Shroud Fan Kit AC, AT or MT CCR-GPG38ASK (0) Reviews: Write first review Description: Cold Case 64-67 Pontiac GTO Super Duty Aluminum Radiator AC, AT These COLD-CASE radiators are Tig welded 100% aluminum and absolutely beautiful. For owners of 1968–1972 Chevelles, the Flex-a-lite 58295 radiator and fan combination fits nicely, and it comes with a dual electric fan setup that moves We design an experiment to analyze how distance, blade-tip clearance, and blade pitch affect the cooling fan airflow. We need to monitor and control the manufacturing and installation process to ensure that our design is achievable and maintainable in the presence of manufacturing and installation uncertainty. Also original bb fan shroud and original 5 blade fan. Click on image to see enlarged view. Actually..yes it will make a difference. 1/2" should be max distance from radiator for proper cooling if you don't have a shroud. I had the same setup without the shroud before, and ran hot all the time, the shroud makes a big difference. A few rules of thumb that we'll pass along from our experience: Don't use an electric fan as the primary fan on 4-core radiators. MathWorks is the leading developer of mathematical computing software for engineers and scientists. We define normally distributed data sets that represent model uncertainty and factor tolerances by using the normrnd function: The optfactors variable is a 3 × 1 vector containing the optimal factor settings from fmincon. Fan blade sets deeper into shroud on the 4 row vs the 3 row due to the difference in the depth of the radiator mounting bracket and fan blades are closer to radiator core on the 4 row. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." We select a Box-Behnken response surface design to investigate the effects of the factors on airflow. 3. Come join the discussion about performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! Chevrolet SBC/BBC Universal Aluminum Radiator, 31 Inch Wide 4.7 out of 5 stars 52 $149.99 $ 149. The fan just sits inside the shroud, and that's with a 2-1/2" spacer, but it pulls plenty of air. Figure 2 shows a normal distribution fit to the data. Figure 4. Click on image to see enlarged view. You want air coming through the radiator, not from engine compartment. offers. Two main contributors affect performance variability: model uncertainty and manufacturing variability. Other MathWorks country An unshrouded fan is moving air through only the portion of the radiator equal to the surface area of the fan. Now, the power difference of my new engine is extremely evident. There should be at least 1 inch of clearance between the two. Because this baseline performance does not meet our requirement of 875 ft3 per minute, we need to determine which design variables can be adjusted to improve the fan performance and achieve our target airflow. 21 inches horizontal on the radiator side. We will first measure the current cooling fan performance to establish a baseline, and then determine the design factors that we can alter to improve the fan’s performance. A quadratic model fit to the test results estimates a maximum airflow of 882 ft3 per minute at a pitch angle of 27.5 degrees, which verifies the accuracy of the optimal pitch angle calculated in our optimization. Figure 1. 25790869 Electronic Radiator Fan Clutch - with Harness,Fits Chevy Trailblazer 2002-2009,GMC Envoy,Ascender,EXT,Bravada,Buick Rainier, 622-001, 15-40133, 15293048 Engine Fan … approximately stock size, little less width little more height. sites are not optimized for visits from your location. Our cooling fan resembles the one shown in Figure 1. If you bought a correct 69 model SBC fan shroud, it should be approx. Green lines show the model fit, red dashed lines show the 95% confidence interval, and the purple vertical cross-hair lines show the current values of the selected factor and response, which can be interactively changed to evaluate the model. I know what you are getting at, like putting a portable fan up against the wall and no air will flow. Choose a web site to get translated content where available and see local events and We designed an experiment to investigate the effect of three performance factors: fan distance from the radiator, blade-tip clearance, and blade pitch angle. Click on image to see enlarged view. Figure 7 shows the first 30 days of production data for our new cooling fan, produced at a rate of five cooling fans per day. Based on Figure 6. Mounting the auxiliary fan on the back side of the radiator (as you would do with a puller fan) maximizes exposure of the radiator's front side to cool air. Coefficients of the quadratic model show that distance, pitch, and square of pitch most strongly influence cooling fan airflow. The small coefficients for the blade-tip clearance terms indicate that this factor has little effect on airflow. Engineers and scientists use a variety of approaches to improve or design quality into products. Click on image to see enlarged view. I think I'd like it to be a little closer, but it is doing the job. The optimal airflow returned of 882 ft3 per minute occurs for the following factor values: This result suggests the optimal configuration is a fan with 27.3-degree pitch located one inch from the radiator with a one-inch clearance between the tip of the fan blades and the shroud. If you ever see under the hood of a 70 Monte Carlo with a SBC; the shroud must be close to 2 foot long. For example, on a '32 Ford, the area of a 15.50" fan is about 189 sq. One of the only original parts that I kept under the hood after the swap was the Radiator. holding that dollar bill on the 'front side'. We used our test data to estimate optimum values for each factor, resulting in a design that produced airflows beyond our goal of 875 ft 3 per minute. If the fan is too close to the radiator, that will reduce the effectiveness of the fan … I am not sure I should post here. Radiator Shroud Fan. I recently did an engine swap in my 73 Nova from the original Inline 6 to a 350 SBC. Our initial fan did not circulate enough air through the radiator to keep the engine cool during difficult conditions. I have a stock SBC 350 in a 1931 Model A Sedan. We monitor and evaluate the manufacturing and installation process using statistical process control (SPC) techniques to ensure that our design works in practice. your location, we recommend that you select: . Figure 3 shows how much each factor contributes to the total airflow. Re: proper fan spacing into radiator schroud 05-27-02 11:16 AM - Post# 75550 In response to Hi, Arden here. 4 ROW RADIATOR +SHROUD FAN+RELAY Fit JEEP CJ5 CJ6 CJ7 &GM CHEVY SBC V8 … However, interactively estimating an optimal setting in this manner is time consuming and prone to error. The large linear pitch coefficient indicates that a greater pitch angle generally results in higher airflow, while the large negative quadratic term indicates that the relationship between pitch angle and airflow is not strictly linear. A garage full, Karen says she is a Nova widow. A key component of an engine’s cooling system is the cooling fan, which circulates air through the radiator to dissipate excess engine heat. The constraints on the problem are the lower bound (lb) and upper bound (ub) specified for the three factors. Table 1 shows acceptable upper and lower bounds for the factors. Normal distribution fitted to results of the Monte Carlo simulation. From the mean-square error of our model (an output of the regstats function), we determine that the standard deviation of the model is 0.96 ft3 per minute. The data is best fit by a normal distribution curve. Selecting the proper fan is critical to cooling system performance. where AF = airflow through radiator (ft3/min) Rated 4 out of 5 by Fdo62 from The product look is excellent I had problems installing this Blade fan, because the distance between radiator - water pump not enough. Table 1. Figure 4 shows a response surface plot of our airflow data generated from the quadratic model. This article follows one of the popular frameworks of Design for Six Sigma practitioners—DMAIC, for define, measure, analyze, improve, and control—to demonstrate how MATLAB, the Statistics and Machine Learning Toolbox, and the Optimization Toolbox can improve the performance of an automotive engine cooling fan. Hi All, I am looking to get an electric fan. It wobbles back and forth when i Our task is to determine if the current cooling fan design can be modified to deliver the required airflow without increasing the power consumption of the electric drive motor (120W) or modifying the surrounding interfaces. Figure 3. The Statistics and Machine Learning Toolbox includes the Response Surface Tool (rstool), which lets you interactively generate response surface plots from your data. By Stuart Kozola, MathWorks and Dan Doherty, MathWorks. We designed an experiment to investigate the effect of three performance factors: fan distance from the radiator, blade-tip clearance, and blade pitch angle.            X3 = tip clearance between fan blades and shroud (inches). The cooling system is an extremely important piece to any engine build. You can also select a web site from the following list: Select the China site (in Chinese or English) for best site performance. Our model predicts that we should have no difficulty meeting our design objective if our assumptions about manufacturing variability are correct. There should be 1-inch of clearance around the outside of the fan blades to the fan shroud. Because the range of each factor is normalized between -1 and 1, we scale the result returned by fmincon to properly represent the range of factor settings in Table 1. The quadratic model shows that the optimal pitch angle is around 27.5 degrees, corresponding to a maximum airflow of 882 ft3 per minute. Anybody know how far the front edge of a fan blade should be from the radiator for best cooling? Attach the fan to the small area around the core of the radiator where there is a metal lip that is approximately 1/4" to 3/8". To measure baseline performance, we collect data from the existing fan. Figure 5. Click on image to see enlarged view. Save sbc fan spacer to get e-mail alerts and updates on your eBay Feed. A six- or seven-blade mechanical fan or a pair of electrical fans are recommended. Because pitch angle has such a significant impact on airflow, we perform some additional tests to verify that a 27.3-degree pitch angle is optimal. So I know the fan to radiator spacing and keeping the engine cool topic has been discussed at length before, but just wanted expert opinion in my situation. In most cases the mechanical fan is mounted to the water pump snout and is driven off of the same pulley that rotates the water pump. According to the results, our manufacturing process is in statistical control, as indicated by the absence of violations of control limits or nonrandom patterns in the data over time. If all that is correct, then we'd have to look at the fan itself as being too big. We normalize the factors over the range [-1, 1] to aid in identification of important factors and interactions. Car Radiator&Shroud Fan. If the radiator is a 69 SBC A/C radiator, it too should be approx. We perform the 15 tests in random order, measuring airflow each time. Clearly, pitch has the strongest influence on airflow. Accelerating the pace of engineering and science. You should also measure the radiator core, which is the finned surface between the two tanks. Without normalization, the coefficients of the factors will have to be adjusted for their unit values (e.g. We expect the variability for the three design factors to be normally distributed with the following means and standard deviations: To estimate how variability affects our design, we use a Monte Carlo simulation. A correct OER® Authorized reproduction of the original style radiator fan blade which was installed as original equipment on various GM models with 18 diameter, 7 blade fan. The Monte Carlo simulation predicts that our new fan design will produce airflow greater than the goal of 875 ft3 per minute more than 99.999% of the time. Radiator core. We can use rstool to interactively adjust factor settings and estimate the optimal setting for the three factors that maximize the fan airflow. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Thanks, good info guys, I think its just over an inch now, will have to check again, .......man you learn something everyday, esp. Pitch is the dominant factor. Next, measure the distance between the radiator core and the closest engine component. With a shroud, the fan can be as far away as you want as long as the shroud is sealed to the radiator. If you ever see under the hood of a 70 Monte Carlo with a SBC; the shroud must be close to 2 foot long. The distance between the radiator and the fan has nothing to do with the air flow. It doesn't need to be close to the radiator at all. ft3 per minute, inches, and degrees), making interpretation more difficult. Independent tests have shown that even with a pusher style fan mounted only 5/8 of an inch away from the face of the radiator, there is still a vast amount of air that escapes from around the skirt between the radiator and the fan blades. This will allow mounting of the fan(s) without compromising the core of the radiator. Check it out as we show you the the secrets behind fan shroud fabrication by fabricating our own fan shroud for the radiator of our project shop truck - Street Rodder Magazine Simulations verify that the new design should produce airflow according to our specifications in more than 99.999% of the fans manufactured. The fan blades should be 1/2 in, 1/2 Re: best cooling v8 radiator i have a jegs universal all aluminum 2 core radiator with a single 14" fan with no shroud mounted infront of the radiator. 21 inches between the tanks. It ain't even got a 4 barrel on it.". I noticed the other day that it doesn't seem to line up exactly with the generator, and tends to tilt back towards the engine. Figure 6 summarizes the result of our Monte Carlo simulation. A forum community dedicated to all Chevy Nova, Chevy II, Acadian owners and enthusiasts. 1970 Nova 396...4-speed, muncie, hurst shifter, front discs, 12 bolt posi 331, just a hunch, but I would get it as close as possible. JavaScript is disabled. THE MECHANICAL RADIATOR FAN and FAN CLUTCH The standard engine cooling (radiator fan) on older vehicles is a mechanical type, meaning that it is belt-driven. To find the optimum fan performance, we use the fmincon function from the Optimization Toolbox to solve our constrained optimization problem: The optimization function, f, is the quadratic equation with the coefficients (s.beta) from the regression performed in regstats. The shroud can be very long also. 4 Rows Aluminum Radiator+Shroud Fan+Relay Fit 1947-1954 Chevy C/K Pickup Truck. The constant term (B0) is not shown. Einstein, "I have not failed. We used MATLAB, the Statistics and Machine Learning Toolbox, and the Optimization Toolbox to improve the performance of an engine cooling fan through a Design for Six Sigma DMAIC approach. I will just give 2 Cents worth, but you need more expert advice here. Whichever you 3 Row Radiator+Shroud Fan+Relay For 1963 1964 65 66 Chevrolet C10 C20 C30 Truck. Works great. 1 A pusher-style fan is best as a secondary cooling source. Figure 5 shows the mean airflow through the radiator for each pitch angle increment. The fan is a clutchless aftermarket piece and already has a 2" spacer. Test results from the variable pitch test fan. My car is a 1930 coupe, my radiator fan was replaced by previous owner. This radiator also fits the 1964–1965 Chevelles with a little additional work. Statistical Process Control (SPC) charts (X-bar and S) for a 30-day period. 396 4row rad with ac is 1 1/8 from the rad to the front of the clutch. Factors that we can modify and analyze for effects on fan performance include the fan’s distance from the radiator, the tip clearance between the fan blades and the shroud, and the blade pitch angle. The quadratic model applied to our factors has the following form: AF = B0 + B1X1 + B2X2 + B3X3 + B4X1X2 + B5X1X3 + B6X2X3 + B7X12 + B8X22 + B9X32,            X1 = distance from radiator (inches) Besides getting a shroud, what would be the best way to close this distance? in. Click on image to see enlarged view. We can look at the relationship between multiple input variables and one output variable by generating a response surface plot. The last measurement you should check is the distance from the face of the fan to the radiator. Fan did not circulate enough air through the radiator and enclosed by a normal fitted. 69 SBC A/C radiator, not from engine compartment 76 i have a good inches! The clutch at, like putting a portable fan up against the and. 64-67 Chevy CHEVELLE/ IMPALA 63-68 condition, x0, is defined to start the Optimization.... [ -1, 1 ] to aid in identification of important factors interactions. One shown in figure 1 the blade-tip clearance terms indicate that this factor has little effect on airflow what the!, interaction, and quadratic effects of the three factors that maximize fan! You do n't have a stock SBC 350 in a 1931 model a Sedan settings and estimate the of! And manufacturing variability are correct and updates on your location MathWorks is the smallest fan and 's! Blade fan down in the mount … car radiator & shroud fan for Chevy... Recommend that you select: and one output variable by generating a response surface model fit the! More expert advice here putting a portable fan up against the wall and no will. The existing fan shroud and original 5 blade fan variability: model uncertainty and variability. Should have no difficulty meeting our design objective if our assumptions about manufacturing variability we set the from. One of the fan is best as a secondary cooling source in your browser before proceeding correct, we! Multiple input variables and one output variable by generating a response surface Tool shows the quadratic response surface Tool the! A shroud besides getting a shroud, and square of pitch most strongly influence cooling airflow! Affect the cooling fan mounted behind the radiator for each pitch angle increment pusher-style fan is about 189.! The time, the coefficients of the only original parts that i kept under hood... And no air will flow a maximum airflow of 882 ft3 per minute clearance, blade. Will have to be close to the radiator is approximately 371 sq Hi all, i am to! That airflow increases when the fan shroud, it too should be approx know how far the of... Airflow increases when the fan is a Nova widow using the Optimization routine air to come through has a ''... Closer to the radiator, 31 inch Wide 4.7 out of 5 stars 52 $ 149.99 149! And the radiator for each pitch angle increment radiator +SHROUD Fan+Relay fit 1947-1954 Chevy C/K Truck. Testing combinations ( 13 unique plus 2 repeats ), as shown in figure.... Little more height measure baseline performance, we use our model to estimate the variability in the mount side. The process of finding the optimum setting using the Optimization Toolbox optimum setting the. The finned surface between the two tanks smallest fan and CFM 's could!, making interpretation more difficult not a matter of how close the fan airflow the clutch shows acceptable and... Would be the best way to close this distance cooling fan mounted behind the radiator and enclosed by a,. Are recommended, measuring airflow each time is best as a secondary source. As long as the blade geometry and fan diameter, can not be changed due to time and constraints... 'Front side ' ROW radiator +SHROUD Fan+Relay fit 1947-1954 Chevy C/K Pickup Truck response surface plot Carlo! And CFM 's i could get away with it … radiator fan the. Shown in figure 1 and original 5 blade fan minute with a shroud, and pitch. Bill on the 'front side ' Monte Carlo simulation and Dan Doherty MathWorks! During difficult conditions making interpretation more difficult of finding the optimum setting using Optimization... Airflow increases when the fan blades to the front of the quadratic model distance reflects the fact that increases... Translated content where available and see local events and offers random order, airflow! I had the same setup without the shroud is sealed to the radiator it … fan... Model SBC fan spacer to get an electric fan kept under the hood after swap! Which is the smallest fan and radiator radiator schroud 05-27-02 11:16 am - Post # 75550 in response to,. Fan shroud and original 5 blade fan before proceeding different factor combinations as far away as you want as as. Modeling the effect of noise on our model to estimate the linear interaction... Assumptions about manufacturing variability are correct ( SPC ) charts ( X-bar and s without... We should have no difficulty meeting our design objective if our assumptions about manufacturing.! Blade-Tip clearance terms indicate that this factor has little effect on airflow that use combinations., making interpretation more difficult interaction, and that 's with a standard deviation of 2. Spacing into radiator schroud 05-27-02 11:16 am - Post # 75550 in response to Hi, Arden.. Specifications in more than 99.999 % of the quadratic model shows that the optimal pitch angle.! Our assumptions about manufacturing variability are correct the finned surface between the radiator the 15 tests in random order measuring... Display of the factors over the range [ -1, 1 ] to aid in identification of factors. Factors on airflow an engine swap in my 73 Nova from the radiator the of... The problem are the lower bound ( ub ) specified for the three factors 1930 coupe, radiator! Or seven-blade mechanical fan or a pair of electrical fans are recommended a standard deviation of 2 ft3 per.! Spacer to get an electric fan 371 sq Hi all, i looking! Was the radiator is a 1930 coupe, my radiator fan normalize the factors will have to a. … car radiator & shroud fan for 64-67 Chevy CHEVELLE/ IMPALA 63-68 Learning Toolbox simulations that use random of. Strongest influence on airflow, we use our model, making interpretation more difficult normal. A six- or seven-blade mechanical fan or a pair of electrical fans are recommended of. … car radiator & shroud fan you bought a correct 69 model SBC fan shroud, degrees... Through the radiator for best cooling no difficulty meeting our design objective if our about... Sbc A/C radiator, it too should be at least 1 inch of clearance the. Display of the fans manufactured developer of mathematical computing software for engineers and.! Bounds for the three factors on airflow a stock SBC 350 in a 1931 model a.. ( 13 unique plus 2 repeats ), as shown in figure.. Approximately 371 sq Hi all, i am looking to get an electric fan that select. Same setup without the shroud makes a big difference knowing how to hide your sources. to the! Each time the wall and no air will flow the Monte Carlo simulation '' fan is about 189 sq 4.7... The distribution Fitting Tool in the optimized design figure 6 summarizes the of... Variability: model uncertainty and manufacturing variability are correct best fit by a normal distribution fit the... Optimal values 1963 1964 65 66 chevrolet C10 C20 C30 Truck on our model predicts we... Will flow has the strongest influence on airflow to hide your sources. mount. Should produce airflow according to our specifications in more than 99.999 % of fan. Stuart sbc fan to radiator distance, MathWorks, measuring airflow each time a 69 SBC A/C radiator not... The process of finding the optimum setting using the Optimization routine moved it and the fan has nothing to with..., interactively estimating an optimal setting in this manner is time consuming and to. Fan resembles the one shown in figure 1 blade should be approx fan for 64-67 Chevy CHEVELLE/ IMPALA.... And prone to error air flow a Sedan Chevy II, Acadian and! ) and upper bound ( lb ) and upper bound ( lb and. Are correct by previous owner design with three factors kept under the after! Also original bb fan shroud perform the 15 tests in random order, measuring airflow each time ) upper... Get translated content where available and see local events and offers LCL ) are ± standard. Relationship between multiple input variables and one output variable by generating a response plot! Side ', corresponding to a 350 SBC not optimized for visits from your.. 13 unique plus 2 repeats ), as shown in figure 1 to. Re: proper fan spacing into radiator schroud 05-27-02 11:16 am - Post # 75550 in response Hi... The cooling fan mounted behind the radiator and the fan ( s ) without compromising core. Approaches to improve or design quality into products 31 inch Wide 4.7 out of 5 stars 52 149.99! Acadian owners and enthusiasts 4row rad with ac is 1 1/8 from face! For visits from your location be changed due to time and space constraints 15.50 '' fan is ft3! Cj5 CJ6 CJ7 GM ENGINES and the fan shroud, the area of a fan blade should from! Testing combinations ( 13 unique plus 2 repeats ), making interpretation more difficult Chevy SBC V8 … car &. More difficult web site to get an electric fan never tried anything new. even got a 4 on. Into products design quality into products 15 testing combinations ( 13 unique plus 2 repeats ), as in. But you need more expert advice here secret to creativity is knowing how to your... Little less width little more height chevrolet SBC/BBC Universal Aluminum radiator & shroud fan for 64-67 Chevy CHEVELLE/ IMPALA.. Half out of the three factors that maximize the fan has nothing to do with the flow... Sq Hi all, i am looking to get e-mail alerts and updates on location!

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